check PM

>A related issue: The flowchart for where to post hasn't been updated for the /ai/ board. I'm currently taking that to mean that anything AI, regardless of subject matter, goes into /ai/.
The flowchart on the rules page has been updated (I meant have done this sooner)

Urination has always been bundled with scat and vomit, so I don't want to create a side board for it. For a site centered around guro, I think this makes the most sense

The current agreement is indeed everything scat/urination/vomit goes to /s/ regardless of being AI or not. However this was agreed on when the board was relatively new, and I'm willing to make it so it's one of these:
- AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit going to /ai/
- AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit going to /s/
- A new board for AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit content
- Something else that turns out being the consensus among the userbase

It depends on what /ai/ and /s/ users think, so I need some feedback. I'll wait for more replies to this thread but maybe we can hold a poll too.

I am thinking it would be useful to allow for something like special threads, since we already do have those.
Among others, I am referring to a long-standing (more than 10 years) thread on /g, that allows scat:
https://boards.guro.cx/g/koko.php?res=23522
Another one, younger:
https://boards.guro.cx/g/koko.php?res=127700

It all depends on the main focus of the thread. Is it about pee/scat, or are those just adding to the story?
death naturally often comes accompanied by emptying of bladder/bowels, so it can make sense without being about pee/scat

There is already another important distinction as of now: /s does not have to be gore. (!)

galathien has a point about watersports. most people seem not to mind pee, or even like it, while the majority
strongly dislikes scat and probably vomit. Still I don't think that there is need for a dedicated board for pee,
since you can create a thread on /s and explicitly exclude scat/vomit. If you set your bookmarks accordingly, you
can have an exclusive watersports thread on /s, without ever having to look at scat.

As for discovery of such a thread, you can always link from one of your other threads directly to it.
("hey, look I made something about pee") and be very specific about what goes there.
e.g. loli forced piss drinking ONLY! or something like that.
There are already dedicated threads about watersports alone on /s, as well as AI threads.

To the suggested boards:
people feel strongly about scat and people feel strongly about AI.
I think a poll is a very good idea.

My own opinion is this:

>- A new board for AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit content
this opens up a whole new can of worms. what about /fur and /f? dedicated AI boards for both?
that seems like overkill. anything else seems unfair.

>- AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit going to /ai/
here you got the problem mentioned above: /s does not have to contain guro, it is dedicated to scat and such.
this would make AI a new top-tier entry, where anything goes, as long as it is AI.
again: what about /fur and /f (AI)?
This would make sense, if the dislike of AI among most users is strong enough to completely ban anything AI to its own area.
I don't think it is that strong, but I may be wrong.

>- AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit going to /s/
as it is lived and practiced right now and it works well, imo. I would leave it at that, but:

modify the existing rules a tiny bit to make room for outliers.
the rules already state, that you MUST enter the subject of a new thread.
You can already exclude stuff by being very specific. Why not make room for including stuff?

With 1) a warning:
e.g.: "This special thread alone may include pee or scat, art-style AI/3d also welcome..."
and 2) an explanation
"pee and poop only while dying, (not alone!)"

thus legitimizing a lot of already existing "illegal" threads after the fact, that have often been tolerated for a long time.
the rules should reflect the way, the board is filled with life.

To summarize:
1) dedicated stuff should go to its own board. If it is about scat, fur and so on it has to go there, but it does not have to contain gore.
2) AI is never about AI (*), so it should be judged by content, or ALL AI of any kind would have to go to a single board, which in turn would not have to contain guro.
3) Explicit rules about how and why exceptions can be made would be nice.

Changes necessary for #3 would be minuscule and would have the great benefit of silencing a whole lot of discussions and confusion once and for all.

(*) AI is an artistic style, or method of creation, like drawing, cgi or even text for that matter, while gore, scat, pee, fur and freaky stuff are descriptions of content.
consequentially, /g /s /fur /f /lit and to a lesser degree /rp /p2p /dis and even chat are about content-type, while /art /ai /3dcg and /kaki are about method of creation. only /req can be almost anything.
content types can mostly be added to each other (literature about furry guro including scat and so on), while methods of creation are mostly exclusive (either drawn, ai or 3dcg, though combinations are
rare but possible).
I am just adding that observation, because it complicates things when thinking about what goes where and what excludes what, especially when comparing scat/pee (content) to AI (art-style).

>the rules already state, that you MUST enter the subject of a new thread.
I removed that rule now, as it's impossible to not fill the subject field anyways. It was a rule merely so the every other thread in the thread list doesn't seem title-less

>>- A new board for AI-generated Scat/Urination/Vomit content
>this opens up a whole new can of worms. what about /fur and /f? dedicated AI boards for both?
On second thought, I think you are right. Separating non-AI guro with AI guro as /g/ & /ai/ works right now because this site's main focus is guro.

As for special threads like the ones you linked, it's tricky to put to words as policy without confusing people, but if it would be helpful, I can try to put a note about possible exceptions/edge cases somehow

>As for special threads like the ones you linked, it's tricky to put to words as policy without confusing people, but if it would be helpful, I can try to put a note about possible exceptions/edge cases somehow

I just got an idea, that might solve this with very little effort.

we do not want a lot of threads in conflict with the rules popping up all over the place,
my "special threads" suggestion could have that result and was not a good idea.
on the other hand, from time to time such threads do get created so there is a certain demand to do that
and sometimes for good reason, which is why exceptions are made.

as we previously discussed, /req is a weird grey area, where apart from something real anything goes, as long as it is a request.
furthermore you said, that it is not a problem, if a request turns into a real thread an becomes big. there is precedent for that on /req already.

with a single rule that is more of an instruction really, this fact could come in handy:

if you need to create a thread that crosses between boards, you can do that by creating a permission request (PR) -thread on /req.

1) the title has to be PR: + the kind of crossing you are asking permission for + the content.
e.g.: [h]PR: /ai /3dcg (artist)[/h]

2) the first post must explain, why you see the need to create such a thread.
e.g.: I want to start a collection of an artist who works with both, ai and 3dcg.

another example for the thread already existing on /g:

PR: /g /s (death-expulsions)
I want to post pictures of people pissing, shitting and vomiting their guts out only while dying, please add more if you can.

and so forth.

those threads could stay on /req forever. everyone could immediately recognize by the title, that this thread has administrative approval,
or is at least waiting for it and the title also functions as a warning (attention! contains scat...)

it would also be possible, to move the already existing problematic threads to /req and just leave a comment in the old place because of bookmarks.
cleaning up the board. that would also mean, there are no exceptions anymore at all, which makes things easier and prevents discussions.
something that doesn't belong gets deleted, or if it isn't garbage, moved to /req. period.

and on /req itself, the special titles set those threads clearly apart from all other requests and are easily searchable.

all that is already possible under the current rules without changing a thing, it only needs to be a request.
apart from the artist threads, where they post their own stuff, almost all threads are requests anyway.
you post something and implicit ask for moar. "hey let's all post this & that" is actually a request too.
and since /req contains the least restrictions, almost half of GURochan, maybe more, could technically be on /req.

why ask for permission, if you can do that there anyway, according to the rules?
because you need to ask for something, to make it a request, otherwise it wouldn't be "legal", which would especially prevent artists from posting
their own stuff, since they don't ask for anything. so, why not simply ask for permission?

another cool thing is, that no admin has to actually grant permission, ever. there is no work in it.

in conclusion, the whole thing with exceptions from the rules could be dealt with, by adding a little instruction
and maybe later doing some cleanup, given time.

>>25309

> AI is an artistic style, or method of creation, like drawing, cgi or even text for that matter, while gore, scat, pee, fur and freaky stuff are descriptions of content.
This is the point that matters most. IMHO this artistic style boards should be just sub-boards of the content boards, provided that the board software is able to do this. So there could be on top level gore, vore, whatever-ore and on the next level are the individual boards for /lit, /3dcg, /ai, handmade and you-name-it. Of course that would slightly increase the amount of boards, but it would also build a structure for easy browsing with less boards at the top-level or inside the sub-levels.
Although I'm concerned about AI-fakes in general I'm not bothered by it here on GC ‒ it's always fake. ;) Hence I think it's not necessary to have a general AI-thread, which applies to /3dcg and /lit too.
If subboards are not possible the filling of the subject field should be enforced to encourage the OPs to specify their conditions.

Conclusion:
Separate technical topics from the themebased. Latter should be the top level, maybe spreaded (e.g. /ws could be added).
Technical/artistic aspects should be covered in the second level with individual boards or enforced description.

I know there would still be cases of doubts where to put posts, but the number would be low(er) with a clear structure.


>>25314

Asking for permission? Sorry, that's to complicated. And what about "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission"[1]? Nobody will care about it. To read instructions is boring. :\ People are too easy minded. :/ They always follow the most simple option. Give them a path of straight forward decicions (a clear structure ‒ see above) and they will follow.


[1] Although it is widely credited to "Grandma COBOL", the incredible (Rear Admiral) Grace Murray Hopper
     (9 December 1906 – 1 January 1992)[2][3] it seems she just cited it herself.
     For a detailed view look at https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/06/19/forgive/
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
[3] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

>>25320
while I usually agree with you, I have to disagree on this one.
your suggestion sounds good and plausible at first glance, but it is not going to work here and contains some oversights,
mostly the very special Eco-system of GUROchan itself.
let me explain why: GUROchan is first of all about one thing: guro. but just as importantly, it is about /g itself.
/g is and has always been the heart of it all, the rest are just add-ons and accommodations.

take a look at the flowchart, from the perspective of /g:
everything from the top is focused on keeping /g clean. oversimplified it goes like this:
Step 1) getting everything out of the way, that doesn't belong at all, or may or may not be guro, but doesn't belong on /g.
Step 2) getting everything else out of the way, that is guro, but doesn't belong on /g
Step 3) only what remains after everything else is out of the way, belongs on /g

logically, putting everything guro, or at least the art-styles below /g would make sense.
but the users of /g don't like that. and the whole of GUROchan is about /g, so they can decide, what they don't wont there.
this is the reason for at least /3dcg and /ai (maybe other boards too) being created in the first place: keeping /g clean.

the other areas are less problematic, which is why below several other boards, dedicated AI threads (and others) already exist.
again: the need for the differentiation into separate boards arises from /g
in the other areas, make less sense, if any. the different art-styles could just be there, or be in a specific thread.

now, in your quote >AI is an artistic style (...)
you neglected the rest of the statement.
art-styles are mostly exclusive, meaning ai usually isn't 3dcg and so on (though it can be in rare cases)
but the important part is: content is usually not exclusive. g can be fur, can be also s and so on.
people have strong feelings towards several of those.
g-lovers often despise scat & vomit, though most people don't seem to mind pee.
scat-lovers often in turn are not interested in guro.
furry is disliked by many, as is AI. (...)

the current configuration of GUROchan has been growing organically over years, taking care of all these
animosities or personal feelings and does a pretty good job as it is.
never change a running system (!)

only a smaller problem remains:
art that crosses several of those lines does exist and at least some people would like to see it.
according to the rules there is no official place to put something that crosses lines.
this is why you can find upon close inspection a lot of exceptions from the rules, even below /g
the administration of GUROchan tends to be rather lenient, when it comes to enforcing some of the rules,
because the whole board is about art, freedom of speech an free expression. being rigid in such a place makes no sense.

this causes a certain amount of work for the administration, judging on a case by case basis.
and it constantly stirs up trouble. because users again and again complain about those exceptions - and that is
at least understandable, since the ruling why something gets deleted and something else can stay is not always obvious
and is not reflected in the rules. (this does not belong here, why is it here? you are not following your own rules...)

that is the point where my idea with the PRs comes in, taking care of that problem only.

>Asking for permission? Sorry, that's to complicated.
That would be very true, if it was about a general thing, but the suggestion is about very special posts only.
For those, no place at all exists as of yet. If you do not have a place to put it, but want to do so, you are more
likely to jump through a tiny hoop or two.

>And what about "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission"[1]? Nobody will care about it.
Again, you are very much right in general, but if your post gets deleted immediately, you start thinking about what else
you can do. This is already practiced, more than you may have noticed. Try to put something AI on /g and see how long it
stays there. If your stuff gets deleted again and again (if necessary), you start to care.

>To read instructions is boring. :\ People are too easy minded. :/ They always follow the most simple option. Give them a path of straight forward decicions (a clear structure ‒ see above) and they will follow.
Yes. That is all true. But as I hopefully was able to explain, the structure you have in mind, wouldn't work on GUROchan because of its special nature.
And it does work already very well as it is, I'd say about 80-90% optimal. Another 5-8% due to confusion about the rules.
The last remaining few percent of idiots are unavoidable and need a good beating, just as everywhere else.

short summary:
the whole of GUROchan has grown around /g which is still the heart of it.
its structure is due to the wants and needs of its members and does work very well already, no reason for bigger changes.
it could work even a little bit smoother still, if the constant causes of several little conflicts would be moved to /req
which is already possible according to the existing rules.
just needs a little hint on how to do it.

I still think permission requests are a good idea.

>>25308
> Urination has always been bundled with scat and vomit, so I don't want to create a side board for it. For a site centered around guro, I think this makes the most sense

I get the idea, my only problem with this grouping is the actual scat part of scat is such a big turn off for so many people that a lot of people will skip that whole board rather than sift through /s for urination material they might like. If I weren't doing janitorial work here, I'd keep /s filtered out at all times.

>>25309
> ...since you can create a thread on /s and explicitly exclude scat/vomit. If you set your bookmarks accordingly, you can have an exclusive watersports thread on /s, without ever having to look at scat.

You can do this? If so, I'll have to check that out. Didn't know this was an option.

> AI is an artistic style... while gore, scat, pee, fur and freaky stuff are descriptions of content.

While it does lead to weird conflicts, or at least a need for the posting flowchart to decide when and where style is more or less important than content type, I'm still reasonably comfortable with the boards being a mix of style types and content types.

I think AI stands out in particular as a style because of two things: (1) some people hating AI "slop", and wanting nothing to do with it, and (2) unlike most other styles, the AI board often has a lot of "how to" discussion. I myself really like using the AI board to talk about how I'm creating my work, and to get tips from other people on using AI.

Just a general comment I'd like to add: I used to think "guro" was a Japanese take on the English word "gore", but I found out later that "guro" comes from the word "grotesque".

With that in mind, I think it's fair to say that guro isn't just gore, but it can be a lot of different things that scare or repulse "normal" people, but is a turn on for others.

>>25325
>You can do this? If so, I'll have to check that out. Didn't know this was an option.

sure. when creating a new thread, you can always set your own thread-based rules, using the title and
the first post. you can include or exclude stuff. this for example is a thread on /s titled "Girls Peeing".
https://boards.guro.cx/s/koko.php?res=28440
It contains 276 posts as of now, almost all of which are images and one video.
to be sure, I just checked every single one of them and as far as I can see, there is not one single visible poop in the whole gallery, only girls peeing.
that thread is more than 5 years old. it is amazing how people respect the rules of a thread, if they are easy to understand.

if necessary, you can be even more specific, like putting "no scat please" in the first post. in your case you could even clean up your own thread, if
someone in fact does not respect that - with good reason. other users can now use the report button and ideally comment like this:
"this is a thread about girls peeing only. scat is not welcome here, please remove the post" also with good reason, so we can clean that up.
I completely understand, that you want people to see your gallery about watersports, without stepping over poop along the way, so to speak.
But as I mentioned before, you can "advertise" in your other threads and make clear, that there is no scat in it at all, as well as directly link to it,
so nobody runs any risk of looking at poo accidentally.

>>25326
> sure. when creating a new thread, you can always set your own thread-based rules...

I misunderstood what you were saying and thought you meant something more automated than that.

I'd want something that filters out actual scat, but still show piss-related stuff, when I'm scrolling through the Overboard and using the "Filter Boards" feature. The Overboard is the main way I look for new posts. I filter the boards when I'm not on the lookout for spam posts that need to be cleaned up.

>>25327
ok, so you're filtering out /s (among others), but still wanna see pee, hence /ws. understandable.
and you not only want to see responses to your own pee-thread, but any new posts concerning pee, right?
shouldn't the thread-watcher be able to do just that, even with alerts?
you filter out /s, but set the threads about pee on /s on your watch list and still should get alerted,
anytime something happens in those threads. only remaining problem would then be the creation of new threads,
but the creation of a new thread happens far less often and you could look for those in the thread list, from time to time without the need to look at images.

>>25327
>>25329

I can do you one better. you can use regular expressions, to achieve exactly what you want.
you need to go to settings ➡ Filter. there you can set Regex filters.
I had to brute-force it a bit since I was to lazy to build something clever, but it works and you surely can build a better filter yourself.
went to the thread list on /s and got all thread numbers. threw out everything about scat and left pee.
now, if you put the following list under "Post number", where the Regex filters go, you'll see that
all scat threads are filtered out, while you can still see everything about pee only. try that on /s, only a handful of threads remain.
it also works on the overboard. of course, you still have to add newly created threads on /s to the filter later on, but that's it.

list of Regex filters to filter out everything about scat (WARNING: LONG)
btw.: performance does not seem to be affected at all.

/39165$/
/39148$/
/39141$/
/39020$/
/39007$/
/38961$/
/38847$/
/38660$/
/38572$/
/38247$/
/38244$/
/38081$/
/37971$/
/37889$/
/37838$/
/37727$/
/37718$/
/37697$/
/37565$/
/37464$/
/37417$/
/37399$/
/37302$/
/37201$/
/37107$/
/37078$/
/36975$/
/36698$/
/36255$/
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/35992$/
/35960$/
/35920$/
/35892$/
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/35785$/
/35491$/
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/35386$/
/35339$/
/35225$/
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/34559$/
/34469$/
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/34141$/
/34115$/
/34100$/
/34060$/
/34043$/
/33906$/
/33835$/
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/33816$/
/33661$/
/33645$/
/33622$/
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/33587$/
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/33513$/
/33466$/
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/897$/
/494$/
/227$/
/129$/
/42$/
/27$/

>>25330
> list of Regex filters to filter out everything about scat

The idea being you append a new post number to the regex every time you want to hide an associated thread?

I suppose. But meh. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm just being difficult about this, but the issue for me is much less about what I see or not, but when I post something if other people will see it or not.

Most other users aren't going to set up these elaborate filters. If I have to post to scat then I know I'll be losing a lot of potential viewers because of that.

>>25331
>The idea being you append a new post number to the regex every time you want to hide an associated thread?
yes. the list I posted contains all existing scat threads on /s and filters them all out. new threads don't get created that often and
you can add the post-number of a new thread to the filter in seconds.

>I hope it doesn't sound like I'm just being difficult about this
little-bit, but that's ok. as I said before, personally I wouldn't mind a /ws board, I'm NOT arguing against it.
historically speaking, the suggestion of new boards can be a hyper-sensitive issue around here, so I was guessing from the start,
that it probably won't happen. now kaguya has already stated, that it won't.
my guess is, that the reasons have something to do with what I tried to explain here:
>>25324
and even though you said:
>Just a general comment I'd like to add: I used to think "guro" was a Japanese take on the English word "gore", but I found out later that "guro" comes from the word "grotesque".
>With that in mind, I think it's fair to say that guro isn't just gore, but it can be a lot of different things that scare or repulse "normal" people, but is a turn on for others.
I am very sure, that the main focus on GUROchan has always been on gore and still is. this is just my observation, not my personal attitude towards it.

>but when I post something if other people will see it or not.
obviously
>If I have to post to scat then I know I'll be losing a lot of potential viewers because of that.
I don't think so, already made some suggestions how to avoid that.
As it is now, people already have no choice but to go to /s if they are looking for something that is ABOUT pee itself.
On the other hand, piss is already tolerated widely across the board outside of /s as long as it is not the main focus.
Only if you create something non-guro that is just about pee, like your recent thread, it has to go on /s
I get, that you're worried about discovery, but people just browsing for piss will go to /s
And all those who know your work and are interested in it can be guided by setting links in your other threads
and an explanation, that they run no risk of seeing scat, even though the actual piss-thread is on /s
I'm rather sure, that you will not lose potential viewers that way, certainly not a lot.

>Most other users aren't going to set up these elaborate filters.
for sure. but most users aren't as difficult either. 😉😅

>>25324


I can follow your logic, but now I'm the one to disagree. :)
Your idea of asking for permission is basically possible, but it requires the will of the posters to do it. This is what I doubted with
< Nobody will care […] instructions [are] boring. People […] easy minded […] follow [the] simple option.
Just look at the uncountable number of participants of this discussion.
Nonetheless, here on GC it might work. It is a website with remarkable polite members, much more than you find on others, especially when taking its subject into account. :)=)
I appreciate this.

> […] GUROchan has been growing organically […] taking care of all these animosities or personal feelings […]
This is naturally. And
< never change a running system (!)
is common wisdom ‒ or should be.
But be honest: Doesn't the flowchart prove (even by it existence alone) that the decision path is really complicated? This becomes especially obvious if you note the change of the logical direction at "Is it guro?". "Yes" and "No" are switched for layout reasons, but this obfuscates the real length of the way one has to take. Even my attempt to straighten the chart a little bit to make this visible was impossible because of its inconsistency.

> g can be fur, can be also s and so on.
OTOH /fur and /s can't be /g and have to be filtered before it comes to /g while /f and /dis are afterward taken care of? OK, I'm just kidding.
Get me right, I understand the people's feeling about certain themes (would you be surprised that I have some myself? ;] ) and I don't want to erase the several boards. On the contrary I propose to add some more.

> art-styles are mostly exclusive […] content is usually not exclusive.
Yet, they are treated at the same level.
The separation into content and style is extremely successful realized for webpages: keyword CSS.
So, if the whole thing would be shifted into two levels, it would be easier to place the posts in the most fitting boards. Each theme-based board would get its own sub-set of style-based boards: e.g. /g/lit, g/3dcg, /g/ai, …, /s/lit, /s/3dcg, /s/ai and so on.

A new flowchart may be not more than this:

Is it a request?          > Yes > /req/{art-style}
   v No v
Do you want to share?     > Yes > /p2p/{art-style} 
   v No v
Is it Furry?              > Yes > /fur/{art-style}
   v No v
Is it Peeing/Scat?        > Yes > /s/{art-style}
   v No v
Is it weird?              > Yes > /f/{art-style}
   v No v
Do you just want to talk? > Yes > Do you want to talk live? > Yes > /chat (no {art-style}, …)
   v No v                                            v No v
Is it guro?               > Yes > /g/{art-style}     /dis (… these are really general boards.)
   v No v
Leave!

{art-style}
Is it a story?            > Yes > /…/lit
   v No v
You want to role-play?    > Yes > /…/rp
   v No v
Is it a real image/video? > Yes > RUN!
   v No v
Is it AI-generated?       > Yes > Could any part of it be mistaken for real? > Yes > /…/ai but upload somewhere else and post a link.
   v No v                                                             v No v
Is it a "handmade" CGI?   > Yes > /…/3dcg                             /…/ai
   v No v
Is it a handmade drawing? > Yes > /…/art
   v No v
   /kaki (without /… since the oekaki board is kind of something of its own.)

The question "Does it interest us" is left out because beside from spammers nobody can be sure of the answer.
And I added /chat though it would be hard to find enough space for it on the old flowchart without a complete redesign. :b
So in the end there would be 6 x 5 + 3 = 33 boards (/chat and /kaki included). This is a lot, admitted, but with a clear structure covering all needs.

> […] art that crosses several of those lines […]
This problem will indeed remain, but would be reduced too. Think of an AI-generated comic. It's for sure not photorealistic (it's no photo story) but it is AI-generated. So after it is sorted into the appropriated theme-board, which might be the major problem with the dismembering of a peeing furry ;) , it is easy to tell the sub-board is /ai and not /3dcg or /lit. As you wrote
< art-styles are mostly exclusive […] content is usually not[,]
hence the artistic animosities and personal feelings are easier to respect if seperated from the content-related.

For the latter the asking for permission is still an option, but I consider it as not really necessary. As you pointed out, each OP can set his/her/its own setup with descrition and thread-rules. Then it is up to the others to read, skip or fill that thread.

Although I don't expect a (soon) change of the board structure (it's a lot of work) I hope my proposal is kept in mind if it comes to an alteration.
Have (you all) a good time.

Peepee stuff isn't banned on 4chan. Why not simply go there instead?